Testing a New Camera

**Repa** · Subject: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:37

By 24kgoldphoto:

Just received a Nikon Coolpix P80 earlier today and have been trying out the features... One is ISO range 64 to 6400 The two highest ISO 3200-6400 ranges limit the picture quality to 3Mpixel but while the 6400 range can run exposures out to over 4 seconds you get a picture( I want to take photos of animals at night)
I have two similar pictures one taken around noon at ISO 400-10MPixel the other at around 8:30PM ISO 6400, 3MPixel 5 second exposure hand-held second shot taken in existing light the bright street is light shining on a wet street from a street light 3 houses up the street.
The third shot, taken at the same time as the first wide angle, is ISO 400-10Mpixel max optical and digital telephoto equaling about 2 Mpixel closeup more snapshot quality at ISO 400 but ISO 64 will help conversely shutter speed and or F stop will suffer... The last shot is sharpened and colorwashed

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**Repa** · Subject: Re: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:38

Repa
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: · Quote · Edit · Delete · IP

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Hi Don,

I looked at your pictures at both the 770px width and the 2048x1536px. I see noise at ISO 400 in both pictures taken at that ISO, particularly obvious in the second (last photo) at both 770 and 2048x1536px, but not very much in the first picture at the 770px width. The 3rd photo, which you say is ISO 400 is pretty good - so what's the difference in that shot and the first? I assume that shot was in full sunlight whereas you had shadows at the house and under the eaves where I saw most of the noise in that photo. The noise in the picture taken at ISO 6400 was pretty obvious at both px widths, but at 770px wasn't quite as bad as I expected.

At what ISO do you begin to notice significant noise taking place such that you need to keep your prints small in order for it not to be that objectionable?

What camera have you used that does the best job of noise reduction at higher ISOs without severely sacrificing picture quality? I find that with my Panasonic DMC FZ20, this happens at around ISO 200, depending on the lighting. ISO 200 is usually usable (not for large prints), but I try to stay at ISO 100 in most situations and use longer exposures in poor lighting conditions (up to 8 seconds at night) if possible. Most of these photos with good lighting can be printed at up to 13"x19" with no problems. Some with poorer lighting won't go that big without the noise being objectionable.

What are your recommendations for taking shots with poor or very poor lighting, particularly indoors, and specifically large group shots when all you have is the available lighting and the camera built-in flash?

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Last edited by Repa on Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:59 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Sheila
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: · Quote · Edit · Delete · IP

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Hi Guys,

I don't have much time for photography lately but it is always nice seeing what you do and say. I think in the winter I'll find some time and can learn once again. In the mean time I do enjoy seeing your photos and what you have to say...

Have a nice day...

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**Repa** · Subject: Re: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:40

a24kgoldphoto1 wrote:

At what ISO do you begin to notice significant noise taking place such that you need to keep your prints small in order for it not to be that objectionable?

What camera have you used that does the best job of noise reduction at higher ISOs without severely sacrificing picture quality? I find that with my Panasonic DMC FZ20, this happens at around ISO 200, depending on the lighting. ISO 200 is usually usable (not for large prints), but I try to stay at ISO 100 in most situations and use longer exposures in poor lighting conditions (up to 8 seconds at night) if possible. Most of these photos with good lighting can be printed at up to 13"x19" with no problems. Some with poorer lighting won't go that big without the noise being objectionable.

What are your recommendations for taking shots with poor or very poor lighting, particularly indoors, and specifically large group shots when all you have is the available lighting and the camera built-in flash?

Light is a necessary component of photography FILM in its latter premier days Raised ISO ratings with wonderful B&W& Color results. In that respect (except for some high line big bucks SLR,s)Digital photography took a MAJOR step BACKWARDS in ISO sensitivity with Acceptable (larger than 5x7) results... The 4 older Nikons I have, while having 400 and 800 ISO ratings looked as bad as the P80 at 6400ISO... SO...THEREFORE
LIGHT DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rats I forgot the 3 Flashes in the backpack...BTW these are ALL SLAVE flashes except the BIG one on the right ...
the flash on the camera trips them but does NOt affect the picture. USE an unexposed(BLACK) piece of COLOR SLIDE FILM it lets INFRA-RED light pass right thru does not affect your pic but trips your SLAVE Flash...nice huh????

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**Repa** · Subject: Re: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:43

a24kgoldphoto1 wrote:

SO...THEREFORE
LIGHT DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rats I forgot the 3 Flashes in the backpack...BTW these are ALL SLAVE flashes except the BIG one on the right ...
the flash on the camera trips them but does NOt affect the picture. USE an unexposed(BLACK) piece of COLOR SLIDE FILM it lets INFRA-RED light pass right thru does not affect your pic but trips your SLAVE Flash...nice huh????

Now you're going to find out by my next question just how little I know when it comes to understanding certain fundamental concepts of photography. Ok, I realize that with an external flash I could do better in poor lighting situations, especially with large group photos. But I haven't invested in one yet - still trying to figure out how to fudge it with camera settings and software so I get nearly the same result. What I haven't been able to figure out is this:

Since my camera seems to know that the internal flash is turned on, it compensates the aperature and shutter speed automatically to take a good picture within a certain distance of the subject. Now, if I were to use an external flash that would give more light and allow longer distances from the subject (like you would need when taking a large group picture), does the camera know what to do or do you somehow have to figure out the aperature and shutter speed settings needed and set them when using an external flash? And if so, how do you go about doing that?

I haven't always succeeded in getting a good picture with the way I am doing it (without external flash, and sometimes without internal flash), and am still experimenting. Probably, I'll break down one day and get an external flash. But, here's an example of where I could have used the camera internal flash and gotten close enough to get an excellent picture with it, but chose to not use the flash at all (because this was a historical fresco), set the exposure at +1ev and then bracketed the shot + and - 1ev. As I recall, the camera settings were F2.8, 1/4sec, slight zoom - don't recall the focal length, and hand-held the camera (I did brace myself - lol). I think ISO was set at Auto, so don't know what it finally chose and don't have the image on the memory stick anymore to check it out in the camera. Almost didn't pull it out with the software, but got lucky and found the right combination of things to do and got a decent picture anyway. Here's the original and edited version:

Before After

What I haven't tried in these situations is putting the camera in full manual mode and adjusting the aperature and shutter speed settings to get the proper exposure. Problem is, my electronic viewfinder and LCD both are too bright even at their lowest settings for me to judge whether I am close to right or not. The camera does tell me if the settings will theoretically result in an underexposed photo, but that really doesn't give me the right indication of "the" correct setting, as the picture I took above indicated that the settings were in the proper range, and you see how the original came out. On the viewfinder and LCD, the picture looked much less underexposed, and thus hard to judge until I got it on the computer. So, I'm still looking to see if I can hit on a method that will work without the extra equipment, but may have to admit that I need to give in and go out and buy it.

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**Repa** · Subject: Re: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:45

a24kgoldphoto1 wrote:

Quote:

"What I haven't tried in these situations is putting the camera in full manual mode and adjusting the aperature and shutter speed settings to get the proper exposure."[i]

A: Electronic Flash meter look them up...
1.) MANUAL SETTINGS...
That nice big flash I connect to the camera has( standard head,bare bulb, and ring light)for standard head a movable linear chart you enter in the ISO and look at distance to target/subject it gives correct F-stop, Shutter is set at around 1/60-1/125 ( or faster) sec or speed recommended by camera mfg or experience has shown works... With Digital cameras We are not dealing with a curtain shutter sans 35mm cameras more along the lines of a copal shutter aka a twin-lens reflex camera as far as I know...
2.) SOME (Nikon,Olympus,etc)camera manufacturers have dedicated flashes that work in concert with SOME of their the cameras light sensors just like the cameras internal flash... Bring money none are cheap but boy do they help light your pics...
NOTE some FLASH mfg's make flashes that will work with SOME cameras internal electronics check their adds or call tech support...
2B.) Bounce, Reflectors, soft-light hoods look-em up they are great for smoothing out harsh shadows and glare...
3.) Tripod and time exposures strangely the mechanical cable shutter release is a dead duck so other methods are used set duration on camera and use the timer to start so fingers or all thumbs do not wiggle the camera/pic at a bad time also try not to trip on tripod legs. other electronic shutter release cables/ infrared/rf remotes specific to cameras available look for them.

WHY cant I get this turkey off the ground...??

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**Repa** · Subject: Re: Testing a New Camera 10/25/2008, 01:46

Repa
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: · Quote · Edit · Delete · IP

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Thanks, Don.

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a24kgoldphoto1
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: · Quote · Edit · Delete · IP

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BTW. I like your fresco shot... unfortunately seems F1.2 lenses died with 35MM film except for the DSLR's and a Lot of bucks... What ISO were you shooting??

You might want to look into an ambient light meter as well...
I USED one all the time when shooting Film they are still available though the selection is NOT what it used to be... It will give you a GOOD starting point then BRACKET your shots 2F stops above and below then reset to nominal Fstop and vary Shutter speed 1 or 2 speeds above and below your original shot shoot a lot of PRACTICE shots in all types and levels of light you'll get a feel for your camera and the light levels...

From the OLYMPUS site... some applies to all cameras some is camera specific...

What is Exposure Compensation, and how is it used?

Metering systems in cameras measure light but do not have a way of determining what the subject matter is, so the exposure decisions the metering system makes may not always be appropriate for the subject matter. This phenomenon is called subject failure. As with Spot metering, the human touch may be required to arrive at correct exposures. Exposure Compensation allows the photographer to set up the camera to under- or overexpose in specific situations.

Exposure Compensation is enabled by pressing the Exposure Compensation button, located to the left of the Shutter Button. The values are changed using the Control Dial. Exposure Compensation is disabled by setting the value back to 0.0 and pressing the Exposure Compensation button again.

The Exposure Compensation setting is shown in the lower left corner of the LCD’s control panel or in the electronic viewfinder. It looks like this:

The Exposure Compensation function can be set to under- or overexpose up to two f-stops in 1/3-stop increments.

It is important that you set the compensation back to 0.0 before shooting subjects in other conditions so the subjects will be properly exposed.

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Repa
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: · Quote · Edit · Delete · IP

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a24kgoldphoto1 wrote:
BTW. I like your fresco shot... unfortunately seems F1.2 lenses died with 35MM film except for the DSLR's and a Lot of bucks... What ISO were you shooting??

....then BRACKET your shots 2F stops above and below then reset to nominal Fstop and vary Shutter speed 1 or 2 speeds above and below your original shot shoot a lot of PRACTICE shots in all types and levels of light you'll get a feel for your camera and the light levels...

....Exposure Compensation....set up the camera to under- or overexpose in specific situations.

The Exposure Compensation function can be set to under- or overexpose up to two f-stops in 1/3-stop increments.

Thanks! Unfortunately, I had ISO set to automatic for these shots of the Frescos, and I already wiped the memory card clean. Can't put them back on the card from the computer as something is wrong with the format and all you see is black. Had I left the photos on the card, I could read all the settings I had. What I remember is the following: F2.8 (widest aperature I can set), 1/4sec shutter speed, ISO=Auto, Exposure Compensation = +1ev, Auto Bracket = +1, 0 & -1ev. I always bracket my shots, and use exposure compensation in very low light levels unless I am close enough for flash. I made the mistake here of not using flash - thought I could get the exposure right without it, and the frescos being art of historic value, didn't want to expose them to the flash unnecessarily if I could get the shot without flash. It didn't come out as I hoped (but wasn't evident until I put it on the computer), but luckily I was able to salvage the shot with software. I should have tried Night Scene mode, that might have given me better results, but I didn't think of it at the time, and also had the problem of no tripod, so didn't want any longer exposure times than necessary.

I just read something about setting the exposure compensation. According to what I read, I did it wrong! I should have set it to -1ev and then bracketed that. I didn't know about the following at the time:

Quote:
Use Exposure Value Compensation when your scene is all very bright, or all very dark. Use positive numbers for bright scenes and negative numbers for dark scenes. Experiment with different numbers until your image is correctly exposed.

I'll try some of the things you suggested, and may break down and get the extra equipment. Thanks for your help!

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