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 hot swap and warm swap

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fay47
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PostSubject: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 11:37

The pocket drive I am looking at says it is warm swappable (not hot swappable). I figured they were the same thing but aftrer I did a little research ot apperas they aren't. I am not quite sure I understand.

For warm swappable, what I found was, it said it usually referred to being able to remove devices from a laptop while it was suspended. But the computer I'll be using the drive on is not a laptop - it is a desktop.

What is that telling me? What is the difference in safely removing a hot swappable device and safely removing a warm swappable device?. To remove the pocket drive will I somehow have to put the computer in suspend mode?.

Fay
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Repa
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 13:59

You may get an icon in your system tray that says "safely remove hardware" when you hover on it, and when you right click on it and select "Safely remove hardware" you get a menu that lets you select the device you want to stop or eject, and then click stop. It is then safe to remove the hardware.

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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 14:02

Repa,

So does that icon apply to both warm swap and hot swap?

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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 18:10

Well, I would think so. The devices I have are USB and they can be hot swapped without concern about using the icon. But, when in doubt, use it. Here's the definition of hot and warm swap:

Hot Swap: To pull out a component from a system and plug in a new one while the main power is still on. Also called "hot plug" and "hot insertion," hot swap is a feature of USB devices, allowing an external drive, network adapter or other peripheral to be plugged in without having to power down the computer first.

Warm swap: The act of replacing one hardware device with another while the computer to which it is attached is still running. Traditionally, swapping hardware components in a live computer was a practice that was frowned upon, but in the hurry-up world of the 21st century, it is quite possible to warm swap (or hot swap) a variety of devices such as PC Cards (formerly known as PCMCIA [Personal Computer Memory Card International Association] cards). Others include CompactFlash cards and devices, hard drives, and CD and DVD drives.Although the most common place for a warm swap to occur is in a notebook, palm-sized, or handheld computer, some components on desktop systems may be warm swappable, too, with similar technologies (such as PC Card readers and CompactFlash readers).

I see you went to bleepingcomputer for an answer. Good place to go - I use them a lot for answers to problems.

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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 18:25

Repa,

Thanks I am still not sure I understand the difference. I did some google searches but as happens a lot of the time what I found was not entirely consistent.

Yep, I did go to bleeping computer, but I wasn't sure if the guy that answered me really knew or not. I think I am going to get that drive, since with the coupon I can get a 350 gb drive for about 20.00. I certainly don't want to damage it or the computer.

I wondered if you went there, would see the post and know it was me. Smile LOL

I found something - I should have bookmarked but I didn't. It stated that for warm swap - the entire bus had to be inactive not just the device. I don't know if that is true - and don't know exactly what all that means needs to be inactive and whether or not the safely remove icon will accomplish it.

Maybe I am worrying about it too much. Things are just too complicated Sad

Thanks,
Fay

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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 19:30

Yea, Fay, technology is passing me by too. I had a hard time seeing the difference in hot and warm swap - one place said you could do a warm swap when the computer is in hibernate. I think the "Safely remove hardware" icon for removeable devices will probably suffice for any device you want to remove. My understanding is that you can hot swap all USB devices without fear. Me, I'm a cautious critter and turn my system off anyway except for my SD card from my camera - I'm just not in that big of a hurry to put my system at risk.

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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/10/2010, 19:47

Repa,

Yep, it is hard to keep up and there is so much conflicting and confusing information it is hard to figure it all out.

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Fay
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/11/2010, 00:50

It looks to me that hot swapping and warm swapping is pretty much the same. If you have any devices that are not written to, like a USB mouse or keyboard, you can unplug them without worrying about the "safely remove hardware" icon in the system tray. But if you have a flash drive or HD, it is good practice to use "safely remove hardware", since the drive (or its contents) can be damaged if it is removed while being written to at the same time. Sometimes it tells me that the drive "cannot be removed at this time since it is being used by another program", then I try again a little later or wait until I turn the computer off. So far, I haven't had any problems.

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fay47
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/11/2010, 01:08

Rike,

I have a USB external hard drive that I sometimes get that message with and at time I know it is not being used. I am not sure why I get that.

One of the things I read on warm swap, but don't know if it is true, was that the entire bus could not have any activity instead of just the deivce. I don't know. Guess, I'll just be careful to use the safely remove icon and hope it works ok.

I haven't ordered the drive yet, but I think I will. Getting a 350G pockedt drive for about 20.00 sounds pretty good to me.

Thanks again,
Fay
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/12/2010, 22:50

Yes, Fay, it is well worth $20.00! I would not pass that up. I think it comes with a USB cord, also, so you can use it on any computer that has a USB port, not just on the one with the pocket.
Are you keeping your old computer? You could clear the HD on it and use it for storage, too.

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fay47
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/12/2010, 23:05

RIke,

I waited too long and lost out on the instant rebate. I can still use my coupon but now it would cost me 50.00 instead of 20.00. I wasn't feeling well most of the weekend - when I got around to trying to order it, the rebate was gone!!!. So, I haven't ordered yet -not sure what I will do.

You are correct, it does come with a usb cord.

Yes I am keeping my old computer. I will unintall office 97 so I can legally put in on the new computer. I am going to keep the computer as backup in case I have trouble with the new one.

Hopefully the new one will be here tomorrow. It has been shipped and I have the fed ex tracking number.

Fay
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/13/2010, 13:51

well I did find your post at Bleeping computer... lol

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t308219.html

and it seems to me that the dude just use what was explain on wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping

However, I found a nice article here.
http://www.raid-data-recovery.net/raid-hot-swapping.html
The terms are a bit too much for me, but as they explain the term cold swapping it became clear.


Sometimes, when trying to "safely remove a hardware" and you get "cannot be removed at this time since it is being used by another program" has to do with the way you access (open) the device and then closed it.

Example:
When I connect my USB and search for a Photoshop document through "my computer" then "USB drive" then document, then work on the document... and then close it through the program (Photoshop). However the initial way I accessed that document was through the "my computer" and not the program (photoshop) in itself.

If I were to access the document directly from the program and exit the document in the same manner I do no get that meaasge. This happens to me whether with photoshop or word or any other program I am using at the moment
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PostSubject: Re: hot swap and warm swap   4/13/2010, 15:01

Sam,

It all gets to be a bit confusing to me. It seems to me that all external drives then would be warm swappable instead of hot swappable and that the safely remove hardware icon is for warm swappable devices. Not sure if that is true, but that is how it seems.

That is interesting about how you get that message.

Thanks,
Fay
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